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ufo - Moderátor
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- Bydliště: Brno www.maxrounds.com
Jaky lis pro objemove prebijeni
Poradte s vyberem lisu:
- zkusenosti s LEE
- prehazovani matric 9P/.40SW/.45ACP
- automaticky podavac hilzen
- bezproblemove zapalkovani
- plusem navic by bylo podavani strel
objem: +- 1500ks od kazde
Moznosti: Dillon 650? Hornady LnL? Nebo neco co mi uniklo???
- zkusenosti s LEE
- prehazovani matric 9P/.40SW/.45ACP
- automaticky podavac hilzen
- bezproblemove zapalkovani
- plusem navic by bylo podavani strel
objem: +- 1500ks od kazde
Moznosti: Dillon 650? Hornady LnL? Nebo neco co mi uniklo???
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viktorcistic - Moderátor
- Příspěvky: 1419
- Registrován: 21.01.2004 11:30
- Bydliště: Praha
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Netopyr - Moderátor
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- Bydliště: Berounsko
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SW_FOX - Grafoman
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Netopyr - Moderátor
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Petzold - Moderátor
- Příspěvky: 2837
- Registrován: 11.12.2006 18:40
- Bydliště: Sudetenland
Myslím, že u LnL jsou matrice nastavené v bajonetovém pouzdře a jenom se prohodí.
Na Hornadym jsem nepracoval, pouze jej skoumal a jestli mohu, všemi "dvaceti" doporučuji Dillona 650.
Tím samozřejmě nechci LnL hanit. ale už kopu za "modrou" dlouho, intenzivně a bez sebemenších problémů. Což např. o "ostře červené" a "zelené" rozhodně říci nemohu.
Case feeder na 99,99% pro D i H vyrábí stejná firma.
Ty jo, zase pozdě
Podávač střel bych zas až tak nedoporučoval. Je to kapku přetechnizované a spíše hlasuji pro ruční usazení střely spolu s vizuální kontrolou dávky prachu.
Na Hornadym jsem nepracoval, pouze jej skoumal a jestli mohu, všemi "dvaceti" doporučuji Dillona 650.
Tím samozřejmě nechci LnL hanit. ale už kopu za "modrou" dlouho, intenzivně a bez sebemenších problémů. Což např. o "ostře červené" a "zelené" rozhodně říci nemohu.
Case feeder na 99,99% pro D i H vyrábí stejná firma.
Ty jo, zase pozdě
Podávač střel bych zas až tak nedoporučoval. Je to kapku přetechnizované a spíše hlasuji pro ruční usazení střely spolu s vizuální kontrolou dávky prachu.
Naposledy upravil Petzold dne 02.03.2007 11:59, celkově upraveno 1
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viktorcistic - Moderátor
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Petzold - Moderátor
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- Bydliště: Sudetenland
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SW_FOX - Grafoman
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ludwisse - Příspěvky: 151
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viktorcistic - Moderátor
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Netopyr - Moderátor
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Petzold - Moderátor
- Příspěvky: 2837
- Registrován: 11.12.2006 18:40
- Bydliště: Sudetenland
To Fox: Čistě ze studijního zájmu. Jak je to u LnL s prachovačem ? Používáš pro každou ráži jiný, nebo to má nějaké udělátko na rychlé nastavení výšky podle hilzny.
To Viktor: Tedy, nechci žabomyšně válčit, ale LnL mi nepřijde o dost levnější. Nemám aktuální ceník od Anděla, ale na stránkách www.hornady.cz jsem něco objevil. A pokud srovnám celkovou sumu lisů, case feederů, cca 3 prachovačů, matricových hlav,nějaké matrice tak mi Hornady zas tak výhodněji nevychází.
(Někde jsem tady viděl aktuální cenu 650 za cca 18.500,-Kč snad od Limitu nebo Proarmsu).
Prachovač od H je, myslím, na stejném principu jako Uniflow od RCBS a pokud můžu srovnat (dlouho jsem používal Piggyback) určitě bych sáhl po šoupátkovém od Dillona. Rozhodně mi přijde přesnější a konzistentnější než otočný. Ale 100 lidí, 100 zkušeností
To Ufo: Drobná rada na ušetření. Do Case feederu D stačí rotační deska Large , spolehlivě podává 9L,40SW,45ACP, 38/357 .
To Viktor: Tedy, nechci žabomyšně válčit, ale LnL mi nepřijde o dost levnější. Nemám aktuální ceník od Anděla, ale na stránkách www.hornady.cz jsem něco objevil. A pokud srovnám celkovou sumu lisů, case feederů, cca 3 prachovačů, matricových hlav,nějaké matrice tak mi Hornady zas tak výhodněji nevychází.
(Někde jsem tady viděl aktuální cenu 650 za cca 18.500,-Kč snad od Limitu nebo Proarmsu).
Prachovač od H je, myslím, na stejném principu jako Uniflow od RCBS a pokud můžu srovnat (dlouho jsem používal Piggyback) určitě bych sáhl po šoupátkovém od Dillona. Rozhodně mi přijde přesnější a konzistentnější než otočný. Ale 100 lidí, 100 zkušeností
To Ufo: Drobná rada na ušetření. Do Case feederu D stačí rotační deska Large , spolehlivě podává 9L,40SW,45ACP, 38/357 .
Naposledy upravil Petzold dne 05.03.2007 9:03, celkově upraveno 2
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tom - Častý návštěvník
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Phantom - Častý návštěvník
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Netopyr - Moderátor
- Příspěvky: 1917
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- Bydliště: Berounsko
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Netopyr - Moderátor
- Příspěvky: 1917
- Registrován: 03.02.2006 19:45
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SW_FOX - Grafoman
- Příspěvky: 5148
- Registrován: 20.01.2004 23:33
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Petzold píše:To Fox: Čistě ze studijního zájmu. Jak je to u LnL s prachovačem ? Používáš pro každou ráži jiný, nebo to má nějaké udělátko na rychlé nastavení výšky podle hilzny.
To Viktor: Tedy, nechci žabomyšně válčit, ale LnL mi nepřijde o dost levnější. Nemám aktuální ceník od Anděla, ale na stránkách www.hornady.cz jsem něco objevil. A pokud srovnám celkovou sumu lisů, case feederů, cca 3 prachovačů, matricových hlav,nějaké matrice tak mi Hornady zas tak výhodněji nevychází.
(Někde jsem tady viděl aktuální cenu 650 za cca 18.500,-Kč snad od Limitu nebo Proarmsu).
Prachovač od H je, myslím, na stejném principu jako Uniflow od RCBS a pokud můžu srovnat (dlouho jsem používal Piggyback) určitě bych sáhl po šoupátkovém od Dillona. Rozhodně mi přijde přesnější a konzistentnější než otočný. Ale 100 lidí, 100 zkušeností
To Ufo: Drobná rada na ušetření. Do Case feederu D stačí rotační deska Small, spolehlivě podává 9L,40SW,45ACP, 38/357 .
Používám standardní prachovač a v něm měním měrky (pistolovou mikrometrickou a puškovou mikrometrickou, přednastavené je mám na .45ACP a .308Win pro garanda, pokud potřebuju jinou ráži a navážku, mám poznamenané polohy mikrometru.
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viktorcistic - Moderátor
- Příspěvky: 1419
- Registrován: 21.01.2004 11:30
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Jeden názor z USA:
I've posted this before, If it is redundant I apologize now. It's just that I know how difficult it is to make "an educated decision" on this topic.
The Dillon has been on the market a long time and have great customer service, as a result, Dillon users are "foaming-at-the-mouth" dedicated to their blue presses. The Dillon's are EXCEPTIONAL presses and do an exceptional job in reloading. The guys that have Dillon’s are very satisfied. The competition to the Dillon is the Hornady Lock and Load Auto Progressive. Because most of the Dillon users are so satisfied I was swamped with comments like, "The Hornady L-n-L is Junk!" I asked if they had ever loaded on the L-n-L and 99.9% said no. When I did find someone that had experience with both presses, most liked the L-n-L and many had sold their Dillon's and bought the L-n-L.
IMHO the Dillon has one major shortcoming and most Dillon owners will agree if they are honest. The Dillon powder measure is sorely lacking in ease of use and adjustability. It meters ball type powder very well but flake type powder less so. And, extruded stick type powder is VERY troublesome and not all that accurate. To be fair, extruded powder is difficult in all powder measures. But, the L-n-L powder measure handles all types of powder MUCH better than the Dillon. The Hornady has nifty metering inserts that snap in and out of the powder measure. You can buy several different inserts for a specific load with out going thru the "trial and error" method of getting you powder charge set. They also have seperate rifle and pistol inserts. The really good news is that the adjustable metering inserts are about $9.00 verses about $50 for a seperate Dillon powder measure. Additionally, the Hornady powder measure can be emptied without taking the measure off the press. They have a drain feature that snaps in place of the metering inserts that is really handy. Makes swapping powder a snap without changing the adjustment of you powder die.
It is a pain to swap out the Dillon powder measure to another die plate. As a result, many owners have several powder measures on separate die plates for changing calibers. This significantly drives UP the COST.
Also, the Dillon gets filthy as the old primers are caught in a cup after they have rolled off the side of the press. The L-N-L spent primers are dropped thru a plastic tube and into the trash or bottle or whatever you want to use. The point is, the dirt off the spent primers does not foul the workings of the press. As a result, the L-N-L IS MUCH CLEANER TO USE THAN THE DILLON.
The primer system on all progressives is troublesome. However, if the Hornady is properly adjusted and kept clean, the system works VERY WELL. The key element is keeping the seater clean. A little high pressure air works wonders. Just use a can of air like that used in computers and photography.
The Dillon 550 has 4 die stations and the L-N-L has 5 stations. The Dillon 650 has 5 stations but, costs significantly more. Also, the Dillon 550 does not auto index, the L-n-L does. The Dillon 650 DOES auto index, but again, at more cost.
Next, the L-N-L uses a really slick bushing system for mounting loading dies to the press. It makes changing calipers and SNAP. After a die is adjusted for whatever you are loading you can remove the die from the press with an 1/8 turn and insert a different die. Each die has it's own bushing. The Dillon uses a die plate. The Dillon die plate costs more than L-N-L bushings. Another neat feature with the Hornady is that you can buy a bushing conversion setup and use the same bushings on your RCBS, Lyman or other single stage press and the L-N-L!
Additionally, the L-N-L seems to be built like a tank! The ram is about 2"+ in diameter and the basic press is similar in construction to the RCBS Rockchucker. I would say that a side-by-side comparison to the either the Dillon 550 OR 650, the L-N-L is at least as sturdily built. And, In some areas I think the L-N-L is better built. i.e., The massive ram, powder measure, and primer system. The head/top of the press is solid except for where the dies are inserted. The Dillon has a large cutout that is needed for their die plates. By just looking, it would seem the L-N-L would be stronger. But, of course, that may not be the case.
There is one piece that can get damaged on the L-N-L. There is a coil spring that holds the cases in the shell holder that can get crushed if you improperly change shell holders. That's the bad news. The good news is that they are only about $2-3 and they won't get crushed if you change shell plates correctly. The other good news is that this spring is the primary reason that while loading you can easily remove a case at any station. With the Dillon you have to remove pins in order to take a shell out of a shell plate.
You can load anything on both the Dillon and L-N-L from .25 ACP to 500 N.E. Realistically, I would say that people with progressive loaders mostly load pistol ammo about 99% of the time. After using the L-N-L for while I feel confident that my Grandkids will be using when I'm gone.
As far as customer support; It seems to be on par with anything Dillon puts out. They know that "Blue" is their major competitor and they seem to match anything that Dillon does. I've been satisfied, But I haven't needed much support, except for a couple of tech questions.
In summary, the Hornady L-N-L has all the features of the Dillon 650 but is cheaper. Changing calipers is faster and cheaper. The powder measure on the L-N-L is VASTLY SUPERIOR TO THE DILLON, at least in my opinion. I bought the L-N-L and am very satisfied. A shooting buddy of mine is a long time, dedicated Dillon user. He has three! After giving me a ration of "stuff" about my choice, he came over and used my L-N-L and sheepishly said, "That's a very nice setup!!"
I've posted this before, If it is redundant I apologize now. It's just that I know how difficult it is to make "an educated decision" on this topic.
The Dillon has been on the market a long time and have great customer service, as a result, Dillon users are "foaming-at-the-mouth" dedicated to their blue presses. The Dillon's are EXCEPTIONAL presses and do an exceptional job in reloading. The guys that have Dillon’s are very satisfied. The competition to the Dillon is the Hornady Lock and Load Auto Progressive. Because most of the Dillon users are so satisfied I was swamped with comments like, "The Hornady L-n-L is Junk!" I asked if they had ever loaded on the L-n-L and 99.9% said no. When I did find someone that had experience with both presses, most liked the L-n-L and many had sold their Dillon's and bought the L-n-L.
IMHO the Dillon has one major shortcoming and most Dillon owners will agree if they are honest. The Dillon powder measure is sorely lacking in ease of use and adjustability. It meters ball type powder very well but flake type powder less so. And, extruded stick type powder is VERY troublesome and not all that accurate. To be fair, extruded powder is difficult in all powder measures. But, the L-n-L powder measure handles all types of powder MUCH better than the Dillon. The Hornady has nifty metering inserts that snap in and out of the powder measure. You can buy several different inserts for a specific load with out going thru the "trial and error" method of getting you powder charge set. They also have seperate rifle and pistol inserts. The really good news is that the adjustable metering inserts are about $9.00 verses about $50 for a seperate Dillon powder measure. Additionally, the Hornady powder measure can be emptied without taking the measure off the press. They have a drain feature that snaps in place of the metering inserts that is really handy. Makes swapping powder a snap without changing the adjustment of you powder die.
It is a pain to swap out the Dillon powder measure to another die plate. As a result, many owners have several powder measures on separate die plates for changing calibers. This significantly drives UP the COST.
Also, the Dillon gets filthy as the old primers are caught in a cup after they have rolled off the side of the press. The L-N-L spent primers are dropped thru a plastic tube and into the trash or bottle or whatever you want to use. The point is, the dirt off the spent primers does not foul the workings of the press. As a result, the L-N-L IS MUCH CLEANER TO USE THAN THE DILLON.
The primer system on all progressives is troublesome. However, if the Hornady is properly adjusted and kept clean, the system works VERY WELL. The key element is keeping the seater clean. A little high pressure air works wonders. Just use a can of air like that used in computers and photography.
The Dillon 550 has 4 die stations and the L-N-L has 5 stations. The Dillon 650 has 5 stations but, costs significantly more. Also, the Dillon 550 does not auto index, the L-n-L does. The Dillon 650 DOES auto index, but again, at more cost.
Next, the L-N-L uses a really slick bushing system for mounting loading dies to the press. It makes changing calipers and SNAP. After a die is adjusted for whatever you are loading you can remove the die from the press with an 1/8 turn and insert a different die. Each die has it's own bushing. The Dillon uses a die plate. The Dillon die plate costs more than L-N-L bushings. Another neat feature with the Hornady is that you can buy a bushing conversion setup and use the same bushings on your RCBS, Lyman or other single stage press and the L-N-L!
Additionally, the L-N-L seems to be built like a tank! The ram is about 2"+ in diameter and the basic press is similar in construction to the RCBS Rockchucker. I would say that a side-by-side comparison to the either the Dillon 550 OR 650, the L-N-L is at least as sturdily built. And, In some areas I think the L-N-L is better built. i.e., The massive ram, powder measure, and primer system. The head/top of the press is solid except for where the dies are inserted. The Dillon has a large cutout that is needed for their die plates. By just looking, it would seem the L-N-L would be stronger. But, of course, that may not be the case.
There is one piece that can get damaged on the L-N-L. There is a coil spring that holds the cases in the shell holder that can get crushed if you improperly change shell holders. That's the bad news. The good news is that they are only about $2-3 and they won't get crushed if you change shell plates correctly. The other good news is that this spring is the primary reason that while loading you can easily remove a case at any station. With the Dillon you have to remove pins in order to take a shell out of a shell plate.
You can load anything on both the Dillon and L-N-L from .25 ACP to 500 N.E. Realistically, I would say that people with progressive loaders mostly load pistol ammo about 99% of the time. After using the L-N-L for while I feel confident that my Grandkids will be using when I'm gone.
As far as customer support; It seems to be on par with anything Dillon puts out. They know that "Blue" is their major competitor and they seem to match anything that Dillon does. I've been satisfied, But I haven't needed much support, except for a couple of tech questions.
In summary, the Hornady L-N-L has all the features of the Dillon 650 but is cheaper. Changing calipers is faster and cheaper. The powder measure on the L-N-L is VASTLY SUPERIOR TO THE DILLON, at least in my opinion. I bought the L-N-L and am very satisfied. A shooting buddy of mine is a long time, dedicated Dillon user. He has three! After giving me a ration of "stuff" about my choice, he came over and used my L-N-L and sheepishly said, "That's a very nice setup!!"
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